2001: Everyone knows about how the toa canisters symbolized pills being consumed to fight off Makuta, a cancer or virus infecting the GSR.
2002: Less known is that the Bohrok are the GSR’s literal immune system, and their premature release symbolizes antibodies attacking a foreign substance in the body.
2003: The Rahkshi do not just attack matoran and their homes, their very presence degrades any environment they interact with. They are walking environmental pollutants.
2004: The corrupt and power-hungry government eradicates natural rahi populations in favor of technological overgrowth and hyper-militarization of the police (the Vahki). Nature fights back in the form of the Morbuzahk.
2006: The Piraka take advantage of and destroy an island’s natural resources and culture out of greed.
2007: When the Mask of Life enters the ocean, it mutates the life around it- like chemicals polluting marine life.
2008: Karda Nui is referred to as the heart of the GSR which is why its name is derived from “kardiá,” the Greek word for Heart.
2009: The Son and the Father, Tahu and Vakama, both failed to stop the total pollution/infection of the world by Makuta in each of their respective journeys as Toa, so now God- the Holy Spirit (Mata Nui) abandons them. The message is clear: This is our fate if we allow the planet to be desecrated.
The theme of awakening from stagnation is also seen with the quest to awaken Mata Nui.
I’m curious, do you mean from 14b2020? Or from anything Faber is doing?
Because I suggest, to anyone skeptical, to go and take a very deep dive into the Faber Files, and I’m not just talking the Bionicle tab. He doesn’t make it particularly visible, but Rebel Nature is much more than a couple pieces of concept art on Instagram and a noble idea.
Faber’s made his own film company, Rebel Nature Pictures, and is currently involved in a live action film project for his character Res Waveborn. In the Rebel Nature Mission video featured on his blog you also see glimpses of an in-progress animation featuring his robot character Scrapper (which I believe might actually be by Ghost, the same people who did the Bionicle commercials), and we also see a video game featuring the two.
Like, there’s a lot of things going on behind the scenes here that a lot of people don’t realize he’s doing. And it makes me excited because I fully believe he has the same vision for 14b2020 and wants to include it in this:[quote=“ColdGoldLazarus, post:722, topic:48962”]
bigger thematically-connected anthology.
[/quote]
Wonderfully described.
If you need more proof, take this excerpt from his Linkedin description:
“The high point was the creation of the original BIONICLE toy line that was LEGO’s first self produced full-blown IP getting a unprecedented 10 years lifespan from 2001 to 2011, and a reboot in 2015-16 and It still has a massive fanbase around the world. I wanted the BIONICLE to become much more than a series of toys. I aimed for an entire universe of engaging stories, games, music on many different platforms.”
Hmmm, stories, games, and music you say? Seems awfully convenient Faber has contacts with industry people who can do all those things and a company to unite them under a thematic focus… /s
#####yes, if you can’t tell, I’ve looked very hard into all of this. You can’t understand the project without first understanding the person and what he does, and that means looking at everything. Every post, every reply, every comment, every blog, every video. I don’t mean to sound like a conspiracy theorist here, but I’ve done the homework, and it’s all connected, maaaannnnn.
You forgot edgy teenager phase in 2006 and siblings fighting over Bionicle toys in 2010[quote=“VonDoom, post:729, topic:48962”]
2003: The Rahkshi do not just attack matoran and their homes, their very presence degrades any environment they interact with. They are walking environmental pollutants.
[/quote]
By “degrading the enviroment” do you possibly mean completely destroy an entire city? because unlike actual enviromental pollutants, the Rahkshi were incredibly selective in what they destroyed, and when they did destroy something, they were pretty violent about it. The only Rahkshi that can be really compared is Lerahk, and aside from promotional and comic art, the only thing he ever did poison-wise is slicing Tahu in the cheek and making him throw a tantrum.[quote=“VonDoom, post:729, topic:48962”]
2004: The corrupt and power-hungry government eradicates natural rahi populations in favor of technological overgrowth and hyper-militarization of the police (the Vahki). Nature fights back in the form of the Morbuzahk.
[/quote]
Except the Morbuzahk is shown at every angle to be an unnatural, alien creature - an invasive species at best, a living nightmare at worst. Doesn’t really help the environmentalist angle if the environment is killing people.[quote=“VonDoom, post:729, topic:48962”]
2006: The Piraka take advantage of and destroy an island’s natural resources and culture out of greed.
[/quote]
An island which is so beyond hope by the time the Piraka get there that it’s called the island of doom. It’s a gloomy island paradise with dwindling resources and scores of Matoran all wondering how they’re going to get by next week who eagerly accept the so-called “Toa” into their society. There’s nearly no natural resources to exploit, not much of a culture to trod upon. And if there is an environmentalist message behind this year-[quote=“VonDoom, post:729, topic:48962”]
2007: When the Mask of Life enters the ocean, it mutates the life around it- like chemicals polluting marine life.
[/quote]
2007 completely ruins it by saying the only way to fix the island is by wiping it completely clean of everything, which is what happens when you sink an island.
Also…[quote=“VonDoom, post:729, topic:48962”]
it mutates the life around it- like chemicals polluting marine life.
[/quote]
The water is already mutated and has been for a really long time. In fact, the mask of life does next to nothing, except make Gadunka and an eel extremely large - which isn’t a mutation.
The mask of life is the cure for the whole universe, so you’re telling me it’s the bad guy now?[quote=“VonDoom, post:729, topic:48962”]
2009: The Son and the Father, Tahu and Vakama, both failed to stop the total pollution/infection of the world by Makuta in each of their respective journeys as Toa, so now God- the Holy Spirit (Mata Nui) abandons them. The message is clear: This is our fate if we allow the planet to be desecrated.
[/quote]
Having a Biblical message just to support an environmental message? if that was the case, why are Tahu and Vakama the two candidates for the Godhead? Why not Matoro, with the extremely easy connections to make? Or Angonce, being y’know, the creator of the MU? Why Tahu, who most definitely did not fail in his mission, bringing about the Toa of light and successfully restarting the GSR? and Vakama, who did next to nothing with the environment and who would willingly accept the blame for all of it?
Makuta getting the upper hand isn’t because the environment or the body wasn’t handled well enough. Most of the disease metaphors disappeared after 2004 rolled around, and there’s never been a real strong environmentalist message put forth. Makuta won because he was quick, cunning, and above all, he sold well.
A lot of this feels super weak. It’s a cool theory, but it needs some fleshing out and a little more evidence supporting it. You’re correct about 2003 and 2008 from what I can recall, but they don’t support the environmentalist side of your argument.[quote=“PakariNation99, post:731, topic:48962”]
Yes, if you can’t tell, I’ve looked very hard into all of this. You can’t understand the project without first understanding the person and what he does, and that means looking at everything. Every post, every reply, every comment, every blog, every video. I don’t mean to sound like a conspiracy theorist here, but I’ve done the homework, and it’s all connected, maaaannnnn.
[/quote]
That’s cool and all, but I don’t want an interconnected multiverse or whatever of Bionicle and Rebel Nature. I want Rebel Nature to be Rebel Nature and Bionicle to be Bionicle; I want Rebel Nature and Bionicle to coexist without interacting.
And since I’m in the exact same loosely-worded description you just gave, I should clarify:[quote=“PakariNation99, post:731, topic:48962”]
Seems awfully convenient Faber has contacts with industry people who can do all those things and a company to unite them under a thematic focus…
[/quote]
Sans the company, I would fit the bill here. The key difference is that Connections does not equal Automatic Employment for those industry people and a fulfilled vision for the next few years. Does the word overambitious come to mind for anyone else?
Now maybe Faber has this all figured out, and maybe he’s done the math and the research and the documentation and the business end of things and most importantly, the hard work. But that’s not exactly a likelihood in this scenario or any I can come up with. So please keep doing the research - no really, please do; once this all wraps up and comes to a head it’d be great to see where we all were right or wrong in this massive kerfuffle - and if suddenly something fits the puzzle, don’t hesitate to let it be known. In all honestly I’d really like you to be 100% right, even if that seems rather slim.
Nature fighting back against technology and modernized societies is a common trope of environmentalist stories. For example, Princess Mononoke.
The Piraka’s plan revolved around draining the island’s volcano so they could steal the Mask of Life.
I misremembered the mask’s role in the mutation, but I still believe that year’s concept was inspired at least in part by oceanic pollution.
Biblical themes were part of the basis for Bionicle’s story. @Peri leaked a document about a year ago revealing, among other things, that members of the story team considered Makuta to be akin to the Devil. Mata Nui in The Legend Reborn is often compared to Jesus (And not without reason, see image below.)
Determining the exact candidates for the GodHead was haphazard speculation on my part, and yes, Matoro does actually make more sense.
Determining the exact candidates for the GodHead was haphazard speculation on my part, and yes, Matoro does actually make more sense.
That is the in-universe/story reason, not a thematic explanation.
Nobody said anything about a Bionicle-Rebel Nature crossover or multiverse. The themes and ideas Faber is trying to get across are related, that is all.
Or perhaps it’s a passion project from all of them. I mean, I understand your concerns, and even I admit that it’s a hefty goal. Even if his message gets across to the amount of people he wants it to, history has shown that even then most might not even listen. But the truth of the matter is that these are all artists who seem to be content doing what they love to do, and whether it’s successful or not, I’d kill to be in their position in life.
And I’m not saying that I know for sure what’s going on, but I am a firm believer in the idea that we have all the pieces we need here to infer what it might be, or could be. I’m also a firm believer in Faber, and I have to admit I don’t know where this mentality has come from that he’s lazy or is somehow incapable of following his plans through. The man is a top notch artist, and he worked with Advance for 20+ years of his life, you don’t get there if you can’t get the work done. He has the skill, the knowledge, the ability, and the passion to do what he wants to do, the only thing that’s really going to determine his success is how receptive people are to it (which is an uphill battle considering how contentious his passion is).
I’ve put together in my mind what I believe to be a solid theory on what might be going on. It’s at least, to me, a theory that makes some degree of sense, and one that seems to fit with what Faber has shown and what kind of person he is. Now, I’m bound to not be right in probably a lot of things, but only time is going to tell what 14b2020 is really going to be like.
And it makes me, in particular, very excited because Faber is doing something with his life that I can only dream of as an aspiring artist myself. I’d give anything to be as skilled as he is and doing something he’s passionate about, especially something Bionicle-related.
And I want to clarify that I don’t think Rebel Nature and 14b2020 are going to be “in the same universe” or whatever. Faber’s made a point to mention them as separate projects in his posts. What they do share, however, is common thematic ground, and they both would serve similar purposes to tell stories that inspire people to create and take action themselves. And I mean, c’mon, isn’t that what Bionicle has already done? His own passions, as shown by others in this thread, aren’t completely outside the realm of Bionicle’s themes. I’d even say they’re essential to some degree to the ethos of the IP. This is just a (copyright safe) evolution of that, at least the way I envision it.
This destroys resources how? I don’t recall any of the books mentioning the amount of land decimated by boiling magma over the course of the Piraka’s campaign. And if you want to argue that it was drained into the sea, destroying all the coral that may have been there, all that coral is disintegrated the very next year during the answer to the problem.
Oh yeah, and the island was pretty much being torn to bits due to circumstances entirely beyond the Piraka’s control regardless(the multiple earthquakes which were exceedingly violent, for example) so the metaphor falls pretty short when the Piraka are barely part of the problem.[quote=“VonDoom, post:735, topic:48962”]
I misremembered the mask’s role in the mutation, but I still believe that year’s concept was inspired at least in part by oceanic pollution.
[/quote]
Inspiration does not equal underlying message. LEGO used the Maori language as ‘inspiration’ for many of the characters’ names, but this wasn’t a story about the Maori. Not that the Maori people wanted it to be, either. As well, if pollution was supposed to be the moral of the story… Why did absolutely nothing in the story have anything to do with pollution?[quote=“VonDoom, post:735, topic:48962”]
Biblical themes were part of the basis for Bionicle’s story.
[/quote]
This is something of a red herring.
Firstly, yes Peri did leak that document and yes they did think that. But if that means that’s part of the message, then nearly every work of fiction with a clear-cut antagonist is a Biblical metaphor. Think of how many could have been Biblically inspired or could be interpreted as such - the list is massive.
Secondly, I can tell this point is kind of thrown out there because you cited Mata Nui as the holy ghost - but now you mention him portrayed as Jesus. [quote=“VonDoom, post:735, topic:48962”]
Mata Nui in The Legend Reborn is often compared to Jesus (And not without reason.)
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Before it would’ve ruined the Tahu/Vakama metaphor, so you didn’t include it.[quote=“VonDoom, post:735, topic:48962”]
That is the in-universe/story reason, not a thematic explanation.
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Yeah, I know. Your thematic explanations have been kind of ignoring the in-universe contradictions, or how like with the Piraka, the thematic explanation is entirely lost due to it being nonexistent or so insignificant that it’s forgotten entirely.
Regardless, this argument is going to go nowhere. Staff has already locked the topic for religious discussion going over the top and I don’t want to encourage it reoccurring.[quote=“TBT_Emerald, post:737, topic:48962”]
Personally, it sounds like someone tried to insert meanings to the story without remembering much of it.
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Don’t argue against the origin of the logic, just argue the logic itself. Attempting to argue the validity of the logic’s point of origin quickly turns into insult-flinging.[quote=“PakariNation99, post:736, topic:48962”]
I understand your concerns, and even I admit that it’s a hefty goal. Even if his message gets across to the amount of people he wants it to, history has shown that even then most might not even listen. But the truth of the matter is that these are all artists who seem to be content doing what they love to do, and whether it’s successful or not, I’d kill to be in their position in life.
[/quote]
Honestly, I’d hate to be Faber right now. The general synopsis of this topic thus far has been mostly negative or blind hype. Point made, however.[quote=“PakariNation99, post:736, topic:48962”]
I have to admit I don’t know where this mentality has come from that he’s lazy or is somehow incapable of following his plans through. The man is a top notch artist, and he worked with Advance for 20+ years of his life, you don’t get there if you can’t get the work done.
[/quote]
Now I don’t share the belief that he’s somehow lazy. Incapable in his own right? definitely not. What I’m having difficulty accepting is that he can somehow pull off a plan that seems more and more grandiose, spinning off into professional multimedia productions of such complexity that until you reiterated the multiple branches of Rebel Nature I had forgotten half of his project was even in the works. Information I was well aware of, but so flabbergasted by that I refused to retain its existence.
Kudos in that regard. That’s slightly why I got involved with Iliad during its inception, but more of a ‘well, this is bound to fail, why not?’ that turned out to be the complete opposite.
Can’t say I’m as hyped, however. Power to Faber, certainly, but I’ll save my excitement for a direct statement. Better in my eyes to have only a little dream than to have a grandiose one that will, if even one piece fails to fit, be crushed.[quote=“PakariNation99, post:736, topic:48962”]
This is just a (copyright safe) evolution of that, at least the way I envision it.
[/quote]
I’m sorry to the three people who think the same way I do, but there’s a bit of an unspoken rule of not really etiquette on the internet where what’s not spoken is far more valuable than what is. Far more applicable when not staring at a computer screen, I know, but one major concern I never decided to voice was how Faber’s statement to ‘evolve the name’ was an obvious way of saying ‘this isn’t going to be called Bionicle’.
Initially I opted to hint at it extremely slightly when it first rolled onto the scene. But that was dumb, as nobody else either caught on or, far likelier, cared for how cryptic it was. So this is more for everyone else than PakariNation when I say don’t be surprised if Tahu walks out of his canister as Glacial Fire Man with his team of Biomechanical Recon Units. H[quote=“PakariNation99, post:736, topic:48962”]
And I mean, c’mon, isn’t that what Bionicle has already done?
[/quote]
Well that’s…
…True.
Point made.
I do want this to be more than just a passion project, though. I want this to recapture the excitement and creativity which was constantly present so many years ago. I really want this to be Bionicle.
True in many cases. However, information from dubious scorces should be approached with skepticism. The information was stated with little to back it up at the time.
That being said, I didn’t phrase myself very well. My apologies.
Most people are aware of this, it’s been elaborated on that the original idea for Bionicle came from Faber’s cancer treatment.
How, exactly? How do the Rahi: mind-controlled wildlife, function like antibodies? The Bohrok have a clear parallel, they serve a necessary function that, at this point, is harmful to the main cast of characters, i.e. they’re living there.
I don’t have enough specialist knowledge to comment on this point, so I’ll just leave it be.
This, I agree with. To be fair, though, the mask of life did mess with a couple things: the Gadunka for example.
Do you have to be a contrarian on everything? Look, I understand being skeptical about things, but it’s a word for heart, what does he have to hide? Besides, that’s the root of the medical term for heart,
The Rahi were stated by Greg to function as white blood cells of sorts, while the bohrok were meant simply to clean off Mata nui’s camaflouge.
Thought, now that I’m looking at BS01, I can no longer seem to find this, though I’ve seen it somewhere. The LMB’s maybe? Or one of the long-lost ask-Gregs on BZP. Since I can’t find it’s I’ll drop the Rahi Purpose point.
Excerpts from my own, personal copy of Rahi Beasts
I got that, I meant where did they say that Karda Nui was named that for that reason. I should have been clearer. I don’t necessarily disagree, I see where he’s coming from. I just want a source.
That bit about how Rahi moved to Metru Nui in order to flee the Visorak hordes is fascinating.
From an in-universe perspective, that’s an incredibly smart strategic move: force refugees to flea the lands you conquor. These refugees (in this case beasts of limited inteligence and autonomy) clash with the Matoran population of Metru Nui, thereby taxing the city’s resources and destabilizing it’s populace, making it easier prey for the invading Visorak.
Minor tangent, but I think an argument could be made that the culture built on Mata-Nui was superior to that of Metru-Nui, despite the hardships and isolation that Makuta inflicted upon it. Metru-Nui was a highly dystopian city with a toxic culture focused around endless labor and unthinking obedience, whereas while the Turaga did arguably keep a few too many secrets, the Matoran were allowed to be more individual, contributing their skills as needed but not treated as cogs in a machine. (Which to be fair they were basically exactly that in Metru-Nui, since the GB didn’t expect them to become sapient, but the point stands.) Sure, technologically it was more advanced, and they needed to return to the city to awaken Mata-Nui anyway, but on some level I see it more as a regression than anything.
I feel like if G1 hadn’t been cancelled, and the story had progressed past whenever the Mata Nui vs. Teridax battle was meant to take place, it would have been interesting to see the Matoran and Agori rebuild a new civilization together; I feel like that could have been a good way to naturally return to the early years’ tribal roots after the more sci-fi turn it took.
14b2020, mainly, but a bit of in general as well.
Faber’s doing good work, and it looks like Rebel Nature is coming along well, but I also kinda get the impression that a lot of it is still in planning phases, pitching his ideas and such, and maybe not getting as far or fast with it as he’d originally projected. 14b2020 in particular seems like more of a side-project to his main Waveborn stuff, and based on the big but brief stream of content followed mostly by silence, I get the impression his inspiration for it has either faded for the time being, or he’s putting it aside because he’s making some sort of headway with Waveborn. Just based off of my own experiences as a creator, I wish him the best, but am also not going to assume it’s going to produce big results until those results happen.
I’ll be honest, Illiad sounds pretty overambitious in its own way. I also hope you can make it happen, but it seems silly to say that’s somehow more likely to succeed than Faber’s stuff, given the lack of animators and giant multi-episode plan going on with that.
An excellent sentiment, that I share. I learned this a long time ago on the LMB’s. The amount of projects that got started there but never finished was obscene. Even compared to the Bio community.
This is also why I don’t care for leaks much. I wanna see the finished product, not the in production ones that could change on a whim, especially when it’s never been guaranteed that it will be finished.
Of course, there is a big difference between people who do this for it for their job and people who do it for a side hobby or fan project, though.
I suppose it’s very easy for a lot of people here whose only experience with large projects are these community ones to associate Faber’s with those. I’m a part of a large fan project myself, and thankfully that endeavor got simplified and better organized before it truly died.
It’s certainly a much different world out there, though. Obviously, there’s no guarantees for things to come to fruition, but Faber left his job at Advance to pursue this. Knowing (and learning) the work-ethic needed to be a professional artist does give me some confidence that he’ll see his projects through, it’s just the grand vision he has is only grand if people accept it, which is hard to pull off.
I found something interesting; a 2003(?) interview with an anonymous Bionicle designer working for Advance Copenhagen. The designer reveals that Bionicle was at one point intended to be used as an educational tool for teaching children about science, politics, and societal/community interactions: http://www.lse.ac.uk/media@lse/research/EMTEL/conference/papers/Brincker.doc
What are the chances that this designer was Faber?
/s
