I’m sorry, but I don’t believe he ever said that–certainly not in those explicit terms. Having doubts about whether the network would be ready to show an LGBT relationship does not at all equate to thinking they are “sexist villains.” People were worried that Disney wouldn’t let Rogue One be a gritty war movie and would gear it towards kids–does that therefore mean that everyone at Disney is a child, or against making mature films? Plus, it’s not really an “unwritten rule” that networks are more cautious when dealing with LGBT romance as opposed to heterosexual romance. It’s something a lot of producers and writers are forced to consider.
As for the contradictions:
I guess I can give you this one, but I’m not going to fault Bryan for feeling a personal connection to the issue.
The development of a romantic relationship over time does not equal the official start of the relationship. Mike confirmed the latter moment, while Bryan confirmed that the latter moment–very realistically–was preceded by a gradual development of feelings. There’s no real contradiction there.
Scenes can reference multiple different moments in one shot, so Bryan’s interpretation of the pose is completely valid. Plus, given that the visual evidence you provided was pointed out by fans who were not involved in the production of the show, I don’t think it holds as much weight as the statement of someone who was closely involved in the development of the scene. Clear references are made both to the ATLA finale and the Varrick/Zhu Li wedding, so one person pointing out a specific reference doesn’t contradict the other valid ones.
As for the antagonistic remarks, I get where you’re coming from on the first–I think that one may just be a matter of how you interpret his wording. You’re certainly not wrong to see it as a generalization, but I don’t see it as a mean-spirited one, but rather more of an attempt by Bryan to explain why some people may not have noticed the hints.
I’ve already mentioned the “unwritten rule” thing a bit, so I’ll avoid repeating myself there. I do agree with your discomfort at his use of the word queer, but in the general context of his remarks, it’s hard to paint his use of it as a way of antagonizing the LGBT community.
This is a touchy subject, no doubt, and I’m not trying to change your opinions, but I do think you might be rushing a bit into judgment. In the context of some other debates that have been had on this issue in other shows and movies, LOK has been relatively calm, and I think the creators’ attitude reflects their desire to make the discussion more open and involved, which accounts for our discussion here…
As a sidenote, if i dont reply to a specific section its because i either agree or have covered thoughts on that section before and feel that we’ve reached a natural end point in that particular aspect.
He didnt even bother to suggest the idea to the network until the last episode was almost complete… no wonder the ending felt rushed to people
He admits to having a mindset believing that the unwritten rule was law despite factual evidence contradicting him in everything. It was a completely unwritten rule, because there simply was no rule - as he discovered when he actually bothered to talk to the Network about the idea in late 2013.
Remember this wasnt the 1990’s or the early 2000’s when they were trialing LGBT characters on TV and film. Homosexual relationships were legal in quite a few places by the 2000’s. He was not some knight in shining armour trying to fight against the evil of Networks who hated the LGBT community which is how i feel he’s portraying himself in his writing… instead he is just a writer who felt that his idea would be turned down so he didnt bother to mention it.
This was late into 2013 when he finally decided to approach the network and put Korra and Asami into a relationship, at which stage the script for season 4 was already complete, the only episode he decided to actually have them do anything major was the final episode regardless of whether there are subtle hints that some viewers noted or not.
This resulted in the relationship shown suffering, Korra and Asami barely got any actual romantic development. Regardless of whether you support Mike or Byran’s viewpoint of events, its clear that Korrasami never actually got to blossom into an on-screen portrayal of lesbians - while other shows that aired years before managed to at least give us a likeable portrayal of a romance even if it resulted in laughs
I dont mind a personal side of things, but i mind that he seems to be trying to use the show to be something bigger than what it is. Rather than risky shows that pushed the boundaries, Korra had two characters stand and hold hands while romantic music played.
Its a nice touch, but by this stage we had already seen LGBT explored more in other cartoons and by the end of series 4 - Steven Universe with its plethora of Gem’s that were basically female lesbians had 35 episodes. There’s a few cases of censorship, but thats more due to the implications.
This is true for real life, but how much of that did we actually see that can be destinctly confirmed as a romantic relationship developing over time? Remembering that according to Bryan he only approached the network about it late into the finale for series 4.
While this is true, its interesting how Byran doesnt acknowledge the clear connections the series has with Avatar - other than to generally disregard the relationship between Aang and Katara.
I’m not trying to change opinions either, but the factual evidence showing him saying certain things cannot simply be dropped to support the opinions.
Fair points. Still, I’m not certain his reference to the “unwritten rule” was meant to imply that the network was anti-LGBT–merely that there are still remnants of that culture that could have impacted whether or not the decision could be made, which isn’t solely the fault of the network or the fans, but rather our still-developing culture and attitudes. I see it more as uncertainty than outright disbelief in the network. Perhaps if they had mentioned the possibility earlier, more progress could have been made–the fact that there wasn’t enough is certainly a flaw I can agree with you on.
It’s also possible that he may have overestimated the strength of the message, as you say. Still, each bit of progress towards a more inclusive television environment is a big deal–LOK might have been a little late to the party, and maybe its relationship could’ve been improved, but I don’t think he’s out of line in thinking that they made a significant contribution.
I think the parallels between the wedding and the last scene of ATLA are minor, really. Whatever aspect of the final scene he chooses to highlight in his article is irrelevant, as it doesn’t detract from his message. Just because he chose to mention the parallel between the last scene and the wedding–not the first comparison some would make–doesn’t mean he is unaware of the more obvious connection to Aang and Katara. It probably didn’t even cross his mind to mention it, given how clearly that connection is made…the wedding connection is a little detail that he is aware of which others might not be.
I suppose, i just think its a bit disappointing how things were handled in regards to the relationship. It all seems like a choice made late in the game, either half way through the series or three-quarters of the way through depending on the timeline.
The issue for me in thinking of Korra as contributing a lot was that its reveal occured shortly after the more prominent LGBT relationships were shown in kids cartoons - it all kind of happened simultaniously in a group around 2012-2014 specifically. It difficult to determine a deciding factor when there are several that could be more likely given they focus more on the relationship.
Very good point. However, I believe Korrasami was also about LGBT+ representation within the ATLA/TLOK world. Regardless of how “worldwide trends” are shifting, people still want to have characters they can relate to on many levels within the series/fandoms that they love. I’ve seen very similar things happen within the Star Wars community over the last few years.
True, TLOK for me felt like it was showing how the world in general has evolved. It was nice that it had LGBT representation - though i felt it could have been tackled better given the timespan of when it was created. Korra spent more time focusing on PTSD and varying rights movements than it did specifically on the LGBT side of things.
The issue is that Korrasami’s handling made it feel like an after-thought because of a combination of its subtlty and of a seeming decision not to approach the network and get ‘permission’ to show the relationship sooner.
Korrasami is honestly really stupid. Regardless of your views on LGBT characters in children’s shows this felt like they were just trying to appease the tumblrites. It’s been a little while but I really don’t remember much build up, and even if it was there, they didn’t commit.
Korra is still an awesome show though, and is well worth the watch, but that ending is definitely my biggest gripe.
Having had a few moments to ponder this news, I think I’m between excitement and hesitation. On the one hand, the original creators are involved, and have expressed their commitment to making the cast ethnically accurate to their vision, unlike the film-that-does-not-exist. There is also the possibility you mentioned, that the original show will now be added to Netflix, along with–perhaps–The Legend of Korra. As additional upsides, this new show has the potential to deepen the character-development of the first show, bring in a new audience, and perhaps pave he way for even more TV shows in the Avatar universe, if it is successful…
On the flip-side, there are a few big hurdles this show will have to navigate. First, it must toe an exceptionally fine line between being a complete rehash of ATLA and being too different, as either could spell disaster. The very idea of a reboot could spell trouble, as the story is easily accessible, and could give way to spoilers, which might force them to take a different approach that ends up failing. Secondly, in order to preserve the unique aspects of the original series (such as the martial arts and bending powers), the new show will require expensive special effects and training for the actors. Without these, it risks being of low-quality.
All-in-all, I’m hesitantly optimistic. Mike and Bryan’s involvement is a hopeful aspect, but I don’t want to raise my expectations to unreachable levels…
Thinking about it, I’m a bit more accepting. Especially when considering other live action Netflix shows like Stranger Things or the new Lost in Space. If it bombs, then that’ll suck, but we’ll still have the original to watch. But if it’s good, then all the better!
That’s exactly why it needs a remake. It’s clearly a story with a lot of potential, and it’s great to see it told in a new medium, to be enjoyed anew; or possibly a reimagining of the story, though I’ll admit that there’s more that could go wrong with that, it could turn out just as good.
It’s easy to think it won’t turn out well, simply because the film-that-does-not-exist (as Toa_hatweave so eloquently put it) is the only precedent, but that does not mean that no retelling can ever be good.
Here’s another good point. The original team is on this right? Well look at some of their newest work. Voltron Legendary Defender (another Netflix show I might add) and its absolutely amazing.
Here’s the thing: how can they deepen it? Really? The original show already has some of the best characters of any TV show, animated or otherwise. How can they really improve it? Imo, there are two good reasons to remake something: The original had potential but didn’t live up to it, or to update a classic for a new generation. ATLA pretty much lived up to its potential and it’s only been off the air for 10 years, so it fails both criteria.
Now, as for bringing in a larger audience and paving the way for more shows, those are both (potential) positives. But just from a creative perspective, I think this is a bad idea. No matter how good it is, no matter what direction they take it in, it’s going to suffer by comparison to the original. I hope I’m proven wrong, but I just can’t see this turning out well.
(Also worth noting is that Mike and Bryan posted a statement on Instagram that said in part, “We can’t wait to realize Aang’s world as cinematically as we always imagined it to be.” This is suspiciously similar to George Lucas’s claims about re-editing the original Star Wars movies to fit “his true vision” or what have you.)
I’m not against it
I’m not particularly for it either
I may check it out out of curiosity
But the original show holds up just fine IMO
(Korra could certainly benefit from improvements to the first two seasons, but even then I’d rather have that in animation again)
