Ninjago City Docks Mask of Ultimate Power.

I’m pretty sure at this point you’re not really trying to prove anything, just trying to be right. If your first two points are “you’re wrong there and you’re wrong everywhere else” I’m inclined to ignore your statements and pass them off as really bad insults.

Then you have the burden of proof, and here we are. So far what you’ve presented I’ve refuted with the idea that these are actual design elements that could not be 100% incorporated into a sticker smaller than my thumb produced by the LEGO Company. I’m not saying LEGO is morally perfect and would never do something like that, but the whole idea that they accidentally went online and found a image completely outside of their legal usage when they have truckloads of reference material and physical models to examine with their own eyes is incredibly silly, at best.

There. It was not as important to the points I brought up, because I was focusing more on the sticker and the official model. But, since you’re using that as a scapegoat to state that I’m prejudiced to LEGO, here you go.

If that was the case, I woudn’t be posting in this topic. ;]

Firstly, they don’t have “Fan Insight”? If you mean that they are unaware of what occurs in the fan community, why is this sticker even in the set?

Secondly you’ve just switched your argument from it being accidental to it being 100% purposeful. I’m going to assume you’ve switched to this one.[quote=“ThatGuyAtTheEndOfTheRoad, post:19, topic:44996”]
we see lots of things, (mostly because we go onto the internet for hours and hours looking at image search)
this gives us a large database of versions and customs or whatever,
I saw that and It immediately looked like a fan version I saw a bit ago.
[/quote]

You’re right. It has a lot of similarities. But nothing in the sticker’s slight redesign proves that LEGO used this fan product, only that they outlined some of the different parts of the mask, such as the slopes on the two front spikes of the MoUP:[quote=“Racie02, post:20, topic:44996”]
On the official piece, they go straight down on the front, and then have a definite angle before going to the center, not the curved slope to the center the sticker/fanart has.
[/quote]

While it’s interesting that they decided to this, it’s a bit ridiculous to jump to the conclusion that LEGO blatantly stole a fan design of their unreleased mask due to some aesthetic changes.[quote=“ThatGuyAtTheEndOfTheRoad, post:19, topic:44996”]
There isn’t a whole lot of concrete evidence to say that it’s based on the fan design but it’s 100% more concrete evidence that you’ve displayed.
[/quote]

Well, to each his own.

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I’m not sure what this topic is about, but from my understanding, it’s a claim that LEGO stole your design?

Well, let’s start off with stating the obvious; you stole LEGO’s design first, and the result is like, 90% the same as the official model in the first place. Secondly, since it’s supposed to be the same mask, thus there are bound to be similarities.

Personally, I think think the sticker has as many differences from the fan version as it does to the official one. Most notably, the chin and cheek areas, as well as the forehead, but also the lower spikes which seem to be more of a ‘=>’ shape rather than a ‘V’ shape, and the shaping of the eye. The cheek holes are quite noticibly larger on the sticker. The midde horns are quite clearly a much more of a flat straight line aswell.

Mean while, comparing the fan model to the official, they’re quite similar.

I simply do not see any case here what so ever, and I find it much more likely that it’s based on another prototype stage of the MoUP.

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That was the purpose of my rebuttal.

All right, there’s no explaining this as being poorly handled, this is a literal insult. Please stop.

Which they already have a lot of. Like, a really big amount of. Why did they need to look for a fan model of all things, especially such a bad one?

Just so you know, it’s literally what you said.

Is there a point you have with this? it’s essentially “I’m right, you’re wrong” which is technically how any disagreement or argument even takes place, but aside from reassuring the fact that you’re completely right and we’re completely wrong, this seems a bit pointless.

That’s cool. I could run some comparisons by you as very pathetic proof that Galidor is coming back, but it’s nothing but interesting observations that would make the person stating them look ridiculous.

It’s the same here.

You’re missing his point.

Your statement is under the assumption that LEGO stealing a fan design is an indisputable fact. He’s suggesting the possibility that an earlier prototype of the MoUP, one which LEGO has complete control over and would not be putting onto the internet in any way, would be the main source of reference, and not the fan mockup.[quote=“Wolk, post:22, topic:44996”]
Well, let’s start off with stating the obvious; you stole LEGO’s design first, and the result is like, 90% the same as the official model in the first place. Secondly, since it’s supposed to be the same mask, thus there are bound to be similarities.
[/quote]

Essentially, the point in a nutshell.

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ok so, a) the difference in the fan version and the official version is nearly indiscernible, especially on a sticker that is in a cartoon format and certainly not given to perfect detail

b) the MoUP is Lego’s property, regardless. Technically, the guy who made the fan version borrowed their design, so I think Lego has every right to use it.

c) you seem to be using the word “clearly” quite a lot, but I think clear is the last word I would use to describe this photo, it’s incredibly low quality.

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I find this discussion pointless, as @Samtastictogo made almost flawless points about lego’s ownership of the design

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That’s not the point…

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@ThatGuyAtTheEndOfTheRoad @Ghidora131 please do try to remain civil about this. I don’t want the mods to have to shut this topic down.

Also, for the record, u q while I think it’s pretty likely to be based on the fan image due to having the same positioning and shape, I wouldn’t say it’s absolutely certain.

Whether Lego has the rights to it isn’t the discussion here. We concluded earlier that they do.

well, I think another of my points were just how similar the designs are, and how claiming that the picture resembles a particular version of the design, especially considering the low picture quality, is really a stretch

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Can we please not get so heated over which template LEGO used to make their sticker? This entire argument is splitting hairs, both the sticker and the fan mask are based off the same design, of course they look similar. It doesn’t matter which one was referenced, it’s the same mask.

If this debate cannot continue without participants behaving cordially then we will close this topic. Insults do not make you right.

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I didn’t mean to say none of your points were relevant, I apologize if it came off that way. I was replying to emperorDuckie’s post.

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and I certainly didn’t mean to come off as rude, I have no real stakes in this discussion lol

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I mean that the fan model looks like the prototype model LEGO used for Makuta, not the sticker.

As for the red parts, the fan model is more of a V shape, while on the sticker it’s more of an arrow head shape, like:

That’s not even what I said at all. I said the Set designers most likely based it on a prototype MoUP from LEGO’s archive. Not that the fan model is. The fan model is quite clearly based on the model that was officially shown in G2.

Out of curiousity; what are you looking to accomplish with this topic?

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@Samtastictogo no offense taken, you’re fine.

@wolk as the topic creator said, the point of the topic is to point out and discuss an interesting fact about this sticker: that it was (possibly) based on a fan picture.

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k

Exactly, I have to keep saying this.

Because otherwise you keep pushing your point, so it’s impossible.

yeah, you went on way too long without realizing that I was joking.

I made up the point, I created the topic, this is your point in a nutshell, not the point.

seriously no, this isn’t an opinion problem or a fact problem, this is just a sight problem.

Agreed.

Thanks.

Not this.

This should have been a lot more clear, thanks.

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I agree with you that this is what the topic should be about, but the first post does say:

I think the intent here was to try and make the case that the sticker design = the fan design, and somehow it all got blown out of proportion and morphed into legal debates about copyright, over-analysis and examination, and then just toxic insulting.

I don’t have beef with the fact that maybe the design could be the fan one, but I don’t think anyone should be toting about some vague comparisons as absolute or clear proof of anything either way.

The fact of the matter is, there’s no real proof to prove LEGO did or didn’t use a fan’s design. Everything about this topic for either side is pure speculation.

Here’s my stance: the Mask of Ultimate Power is the Mask of Ultimate Power. I think Var said it best:

I honestly think this whole topic has been a shining example of how starved for debate and speculation the Bionicle community is. Heck, this whole sticker phenomenon where some people see it as an insult to Bionicle fans.

The minute Bionicle disappears again we all turn into animals and try and over-analyze and mutate every little thing that surfaces about our passion into needless contention.

The stickers are a gesture of acknowledgement. Please, show LEGO some gratitude.

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I have showed my Gratitude, this topic was never saying that it’s bad, it’s just about the fact that they used a design, just trying to bring some fan context to common knowlege. That’s it, this has nothing to do with Copyright, I never tried to push that, I actively tried to say that’s not right.

(Clearly Var is on a Downard Spiral, It’s never ogre, can you unsubcribe?)

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This ^
I really like these little references, I wish I could get this set and Ninjago City. And if it was based on a fan image, that just makes it even better imo, even if it wasn’t intentional.

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I agree entirely, this just shows that the community’s works can reach heights and go far from just being on the internet.

And talking about this is a great test of our knowledge and methods in this community, though we did get a little negative, it’s better than a lot of arguments I’ve had here,
(we actually got stuff done on graphs etc. So I consider that a plus.)

The joke is that Var edited out a comment about Normies, which is a common topic of the Youtuber EmpLemon, who also has several inside jokes, these include

(Downward Spiral, It’s never ogre, and can you unsubscribe)

And if anyone actually got these jokes, thank you.

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Main issue here is you’re being abrasive and rude, and that isn’t something we approve of when it comes to discussion here.

My two cents: This is unbelievably stupid. Cyberhand (Who made the most popular 3D model of the MoUP) has no ownership over the design of a mask he intended to make a 1:1 copy of based off the LEGO model. He did such a good job that it is the closest iteration we can get ahold of. That’s a testament to his skills. That being said, I highly doubt that LEGO “took” anything from him, given that they have the mask themselves and wouldn’t need a fan model.

LEGO didn’t use the fan model as a reference. Cyberhand used the LEGO model as a reference. There isn’t more to it.

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Just so you know, the fan model it’s supposedly based on isn’t Cyberhand’s model, but a model made by one Dr. Frosty, which is slightly different from Cyberhand’s version. (If Dr. Frosty is Cyberhand’s steam name, feel free to let me know)

Since no one has done so yet, here’s a comparison of all the versions of the MoUP, side and front views where possible. Cyber-hand’s model will be used as well since there are better pictures of it than the official.

The Moup:
Real edition (lines by cyberhand for his model, but this is the only pic I could find that had it straight-on, rather than at an angle)



Cyberhand episode

The Dr. Frosty era, for which I will be using these pictures (from the link in the first post of this topic) to illustrate the shape similarities

The sticker incident

The big point of difference is the two side horns. On the original, they come down to an angle and go in.

Same story on Cyberhand’s model

On the fan edition, they curve inward


The sticker does so as well.

Still not convinced? Well, let’s look at the center section
On the original, the center ledge goes downward and ends at the lower center of the forehead circle

You can see this as well on the cyberhand piece. I think it slopes down a bit more on the official, but That’s just me.

Dr Frosty, however, had the center ledge level, and it ends at the top of the forehead circle

And as for the sticker?

Flat ledge, top of the circle.
But, if you’re still not convinced, let’s do a side-by-side comparison. First, the sticker to the fan model, which @ThatGuyAtTheEndOfTheRoad already did.

But here’s sticker-to-original (not a very good picture, I’ll admit, but the best I could manage)

And sticker to Cyber-hand (which turned out much better IMO)

Obviously, there’s going to be some differences due to these pictures being at different angles, but the differences in the ledge and horn shape are too big to ignore, while the sticker matches the fan model almost exactly.

Conclusion: the sticker is absolutely based on the fan model. I am 99% certain of it.

Does this mean that Lego owes something to Dr. Frosty for using his design, which was in turn based on their design? No, they do not. Not at all. But as to whether they did actually use it as a reference, they certainly did.

~W12~

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