I know this will be a controversial idea, but all I ask is that you hear me out.
CCBS was introduced in 2011. That was six years ago. The original Toa building system lasted three years. (2001-2003). The Metru/Hordika system lasted for two. The dreaded Inika system lasted for five years. (I’m including 2010 because HF’s first wave of villains were arguably Inika builds.) Officially we’ve had CCBS for longer than the Inika build. In HF, it remained largely unchanged: build skeleton, build armor shells, back is gappy, set is small. In order to fix these flaws, which Lego did with Bionicle G2, they had to use near 100 pieces per Toa. Those sets probably used more plastic than any other Bionicle figure. (My hypothesis being that G2 sets weighed too much to turn enough of a profit.)
Now, lets consider the current state of CCBS. Star Wars. Look at the price per piece ratios. Even for constraction, they’re awful. Chebacca costs 34.99 and is 179 pieces. I recently got Vezon and Fenrakk off of ebay (281 parts) for less than that (including shipping, and instructions). I feel that many would agree with me, that these are overpriced. But that’s the thing with CCBS, and its always been its problem: In order to make the set look good, it has to be pricey. In order to have a reasonable price, set quality will suffer.
My point is this: it’s time to let CCBS go. It’s time to imagine something new.
While I do agree we probably need some variation to replace or go alongside ccbs price doesn’t really have anything to do with it; all lego is overpriced nowadays.
A lot of 30$ sets nowadays have the same amount of parts as 15-20$ sets back then. I mean the protectors were 10$ and weren’t the original toa 5 Yet had a similar number of parts and came in a canister?
Original Toa had ~35 parts, and cost about 7.00. The Protectors had about 60~70 parts and cost 10.00. Parts-wise, the Protectors were a better deal than the Glatorian actually, since Glatorian and Protectors had the same amount of parts, but Glatorian cost about 3.00 more. (All currencies I mentioned were in USD.)
I wouldn’t be opposed to a constraction line in which the figure were made from system parts. I think it would work out very well, actually. System allows for more detail, less gaps, and it would appeal to fans who are unfamiliar to ccbs. The only downside is that it might be pricey.
But I mean a different system. I wouldn’t mind having a new system for buildable figures untilizing ratchet joints similar to 2003 makutas legs.
Either that or maybe a line of giant figs like giant man or ares.
Can we maybe have a sort of system/ccbs fusion? like something where you’d be able to build off of bones with system parts, kinda like an upscaled mixel type thing, maybe?
Ccbs bones have technically lasted long before they were introduced, since all they really are are modified technic beams. The armor is the only thing in the system that’s actually new. IMO that’s the only thing that needs to be replaced.
Okay. Here goes. For the record, I do appreciate your interest in making your case here, man.
I’m going to stop your right there.
These are not building systems. Here’s what does make the cut as a building system within the TLG product line:
LEGO System
Technic
Mixels
Clikits
CCBS
A “building system” isn’t defined by the parts that are used, or even by the stylistic language of the molds. If they were, there would be a million different “systems” since TLG started making stackable bricks in 1949.
No, what defines a system is ther means by which it utilizes connections. The “LEGO System” uses stackable bricks covered in studs. The “Technic” system uses pins, axles, and perforated beams. The Mixels system uses a certain size of ball joints that is incompatible with other systems. The Clikits system used some sort of weird button-type thing - again, incompatible with other systems. And CCBS uses a different, proprietary size of ball joint. That’s what the system is; it’s how everything connects. You can integrate other systems into CCBS, just like you can integrate others into Mixels, LEGO System, and Technic. But nonetheless, CCBS is defined by ball joints.
…If you see the progression we have had since the very first Slizers, RoboRiders and BIONICLE Generation 1, I think we have learned a lot. The way they were put together was liked by many fans, but it wasn’t a System at the time. (Emphasis added)
-Steen Lindeberg, Marketing Director and Story Team member for Bionicle G2.
There ya go.
This is not really accurate, especially if you consider the nature of the constraction pricing model used in the years that the theme was around. Back then, you typically had three tiers of sets: a 10 USD tier that gave you a pretty bare-bones figure - essentially what you described, though there were still plenty of auxiliary pin add-ons, even at that level. A bit further up, you had a 12 USD tier, which typically had a detailed technic-built weapon, an armored back, and seven or eight inches of height. Finally, you had “XL” sets, which cost around 20 USD and were even larger/more detailed.
Sure, back in 2011, you wouldn’t see CCBS sets with armored backs and detailed accessories; that’s a reason to reflect on how far the system has come, as far as I’d say.
Sounds awesome. Nothing wrong with that.
There’s nothing wrong with using “more plastic than any other Bionicle figure” if the figures in question offer a price per part ratio that’s light-years ahead of what we were getting in G1. G2 offered a supplement to CCBS, a system that didn’t inherently need to be fixed in the first place by the standards that yoiu’ve detailed.
Huh? Are you referring to the idea that bigger sets cost more to make? The issue is, they also retail for more…
They are, for sure; according to Bricset, only three SWC sets ghave somehow cracked into the top fifty CCBS sets as far as price per part is concerned. That said, as others have mentioned, the theme is licensed; further, the theme has been forced to create a ton of new pieces to match the formative aesthetic of Star Wars, and that usually drives up the price.
Chewbacca is a licensed set that comes with seven new recolors, a dual-molded new mold, and four unique prints. He stands at over 11 inches tall and has 19 more pieces than Vader. He was also released over two years later. Inflation, when combined with more pieces and a larger figure, leads to a pricier set. Here’s a pic of Chewie right up against his cheaper SWC buddy.
A smattering of folks have mentioned that this doesn’t really reflect TLG prices, so it’s not super relevevant ghere. That said, Vezon & Fenrakk was $30 in the US when it came out.
See, I don’t disagree; the issue is that constraction has always been this way. The standard is the “LEGO System” of studs and such, not constraction, so the sets in question will pretty much always seem overpriced in comparison.
So yeah, I don’t think that any of these issues are unique to CCBS. If anything, we’re getting better value for our dollar (or Euro, or Pound, or whatever) with CCBS; just compare last winter’s elemental creatures with any similarly priced set from the G1 days. If the standard is set at plenty of new molds, recolors, play functions, and total parts, those guys blow almost anything else out of the water.
When do I think that we should replace CCBS? In my opinion, not for a long, long time. Outside of an increase in integration with system and Mixels, I’d be hard pressed to find a reason to ditch constraction’s mainstay any time soon.
The object that you built isn’t really close to a CCBS skeleton; there aren’t any connection points for technic, nor any mechanism for keeping the ball joints from sliding. I can build a 2x1x2 brick if I stack two 2x1x1 bricks, but that doesn’t make the former redundant.
from someone who has bought like 3 lego system sets through all my life; nope, I dlnt like system, it’s overpriced, and I like the way ccbs is, imo we just need another theme to show it, like hero factory g2 or something
And how is it a problem that CCBS has existed for six year? Unlike the other “systems” you mentioned CCBS is, as Azani pointed out, a system. CCBS was designed from the ground up to exist and expand upon, basically forever. CCBS is the action figure equivalent of system pieces, it’s basic design mirrors the way the basics of system work. And it’s because of that reason that I don’t understand the want for a new system in place of CCBS, I don’t hear people wanting a new system in place of regular system. Or a new system in place of technic.
HF did not remain unchanged at all. HF introduced CCBS and was very experimental with it’s usage. Taking a look at 2011 the debut of CCBS, yes the basic $10 hero sets are what you described but the only 5 dollar more expensive villain sets are far different in build, look at sets like raw jaw or waspix who don’t follow this same basic design and offer more variation than even some of Bionicle’s years. And this only continued as hero factory developed with larger hero set with more detailed armor and weapons. Something like breakout Rocka is already a massive improvement over Rocka 3.0. and by the time you get to Invasion from below the sets have become much more intricate and different than what debuted in 2011, most issues you mentioned aren’t even relevant anymore at that point.
What sort of evidence do you have for this claim? Because without it this is not an argument.
All right let’s do that. Chewbacca has a PPP of 0.19 cents. Vezon and Fenrakk PPP is 0.13 (adjusted for inflation) now that is a difference and Chewbacca is definitely above average……For bionicle sets. However this ratio is below average for SW. SW generally uses larger parts than bionicle and has more specialized molds and prints. Not to mention the licensing cost. So it’s very understandable that these sets would have a higher PPP than Bionicle sets, and in Chewbacca’s case the difference isn’t even that big, only a difference from 6 cents, were as the average for SW is a difference of 11 cents. So no, I wouldn’t say that these sets are overpriced at all. Lego is an expensive hobby and if you don’t want to pay the money it costs that’s totally fine. But that doesn’t make a set overpriced.
This difference in price is reasonable though. Vader costs 32 dollars (adjusted for inflation), 3 dollars less than Chewbacca and has 19 less parts than Chewbacca. So I find the difference in price pretty reasonable.
I think this is redundant. It’s hard to picture a more versatile system than CCBS, honestly.
If anything they could choose to expand and diversify it a bit, but replacing it would not be helpful. Really we saw the beginnings of that necessary evolution towards the end of Bionicle G2 with the introduction of new torso pieces, but naturally that was scrapped along with Lego’s ambition for constraction IPs.
